Orange and Joey
With Orange and Lemons. I always knew they'd hit it big sooner or later.
Joey Ayala and longtime bassist...damn I forgot his name. Saw him at Conspiracy last week. We didn't get to hear his immortal classic "Walang Hanggang Paalam," but he did play my request, "Habang Natutulog." Words are not enough to describe what a brilliant musician and human being he is.
posted by peejay at 8/24/2005 12:16:00 PM
12 Comments:
Ito ang poste nila sa egroup….thread 8701!
From: “cranehead”
Date: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:30 am
Subject: Re: Pinoy Big Brother Song cranehead
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hahahahahah! i expected that reaction eric. it’s true that it was
inspired by the care’s diamonds and emeralds and chandeliers. i won’t
deny it. what you heard in gweilos was a very rough version. here’s
the story behind that song:
July 22 — i receive a notice that Star Records will commission us to
do a remake of Big Brother Soundtrack (western version). The song was
ok so we agreed to do it.
July 25 — another notice saying that star records prefers a tagalog
version and that the deadline for the final master would be july 31.
July 26 — i received the lyrics from jonathan manalo and decided
against adapting the original soundtrack coz i personally felt it wont
work. so i came up with a new melody line. at that time my playlist
includes Diamonds and Emeralds album hence the inspiration and
adaptation not minding if abs cbn would like our version.
July 29 — i presented the music to star records and guess what they
dig our version.
July 30 & 31 — proper recording in the studio.
Aug 1 — submission of final master
Aug 2 — Video Shoot of the Song Pinoy Ako.
As you see that song is a product of pressure. and i only did what
came naturally to me with regards to the music. the end result was
very favorable to us. i personally like it and proud of it. And for
you to fully scrutinize the song i’m gonna upload it in the file
section. No worries about lawsuits, im sure the care wouldn’t mind.
our guitar and banduria intro notes are way different from chandeliers
and as for the melody line we never exceeded the 7 note rule. this
version has a clear pinoy taste if i may say so and injected our
originality in it. but i would appreciate any further comments from
you mate.
Pinoy Ako! haha!
— In orangeandlemons@yahoogroups.com, “eric76_salvador”
wrote:
> Its the first time I heard the song last night at Gweilo’s Makati. I
> thought the band was joking around because after they announced the
> next song as the PBB song, they played the intro to
> Care’s “Chandeliers”. When Mcoy sang in Tagalog, that’s when I
realised
> that its a different song.
>
> I was going to sing “Your eyes are chandeliers..” sana e. Langya,
> plakadong-plakado yung song!Dedemanda kayo ng Care nyan hahahaha!
>
> eric
NATUWA PA ANG MGA GAGO KASI MGA POSER!
eto pa, message 9251 thread:
From: “cranehead”
Date: Sat Sep 3, 2005 5:45 am
Subject: [orange and lemons] Re: OnL’s Pinoy Big Bro song reminds me of The Care. (to colourfield) cranehead
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Salamat Eric, my intention of making that particular song sound
Carish has received a lot of both positive and negative feedbacks.
but has served my purpose. Now many are wondering who the
hell “Care” is. You might like to give a few inputs mate about them
and their works or if you have previous reviews of their songs and
album. Whoever is really making the music for the Care songs I
respect and love so much just like the level of enthusiasm i had for
Morrissey’s lyricism/performance and Johnny Marr’s music.
don’t worry eric, just like you, i’m neither one of them…
Clem
eh, di tama pala itong nabasa ko sa manila bulletin noong october 16, 2005?
Music writer blows whistle against Orange and Lemons
By KAYE VILLAGOMEZ
The sore truth is that pop band Orange and Lemons ripped-off "Chandeliers" by ?80s duo The Care and used the melody for "Pinoy Ako" according to music correspondent Giselle Roque who beseeched Manila Bulletin after she read an article this broadsheet published last Oct. 5.
"When I was posting e?mails that certain artists did not ask permission [from The Care] and copied ?Chandeliers, I did not mention Orange and Lemons. But they were the ones who reacted and posted their own defense in turn so that was the time that established na kinopya nila talaga yung kanta," Roque, who is also the niece of rock icon Sampaguita added.
"?We did make it Carish? went Orange and Lemons ?admission? and they have the guts to say that these are two different songs?" pointed out Roque, who is a friend of Paul Simpson, who wrote and sang "Chandeliers" for the album "Diamonds and Emeralds."
The other half of The Care duo is Ian Broudie. "Chandeliers" was credited to Broudie/Simpson, like the rest of the songs in the said album, published under Warner Chappell, Ltd. The Care, which was formed in 1983, was most noted for the singles "My Boyish Days," "Flaming Sword," and "Whatever Possessed You."
Roque disclosed to the Bulletin that she could not believe it when Orange and Lemons posted on an e-group mail she received that they were just waiting to be noticed by Simpson and his camp. "They said, At last, this is just what they?ve been waiting for to get noticed. They also said that at least now, people are researching The Cares music. My point is how could people research it if you don?t acknowledge that you got the song from The Care? Ang isinagot ni Clem (Castro of Orange and Lemons) ?E bakit kami magpapaalam? Magpasalamat pa nga ang The Care at pinasikat namin ang kanta nila. It was really frustrating. They even wrote, Do we have to find people who are avid fans of The Care and ask permission from them? Well, if they?d ask me, they didn?t have to track down Care fans, only the person who wrote the song they ripped?off."
She further revealed that "Orange and Lemons said that they were pressured and did not know what else to do. Since they were listening to The Care, to that effect, they decided na puwede ang Chandeliers. I have the e?mail from Orange and Lemons to prove this including the time line explaining they had to rush the song because ABS-CBN gave them barely a week to do it and record the video for Pinoy Ako."
The said ?time line,? Roque gathered, came up when earlier queries were thrown against the band in certain e?groups both Orange and Lemons and Roque belong to.
She continued, "At that time they were commissioned to do the melody of the song, they were listening to The Care and thought that it?s some sort of natural tendency to come out with something that sounds like but I?ve heard of ?Pinoy Ako? and that?s not katunog. When I heard on board a bus, I was almost sure that ?Chandelier?s? lyrics are next after the intro so you could just imagine the shock when Tagalog lyrics settled in! I was like ?Oh my God! What is this?? I didn?t know who ripped the song off that time but same thing, I thought ?This is very sad. This is very frustrating.? Then, somebody from the States e?mailed me that they saw it on ABS?CBN?s ?Big Brother.?"
Meanwhile, ABS?CBN?s official statement on the issue was: "ABS-CBN commissioned Orange and Lemons to compose the music, arrange and perform an original song, ?Pinoy Ako,? as the theme of ?Pinoy Big Brother.? Any inquiry with regard to this matter should be addressed to the band and Universal Records (Orange and Lemons music label)."
A staunch believer of Indie musicians and OPM, Roque was prompted to come out after she read the band?s denial in the Bulletin, which she described, "Dumbfounding. How could they (Orange and Lemons) deny they copied the song when I have all the e?mails to prove them wrong?" noted Roque who has been a music writer for Pulp music magazine since 2003.
Paul Simpson happened to be in constant correspondence with Roque "and as a friend of Paul, it?s unfair for Orange and Lemons to rip-off his song without asking for Paul?s permission. They know very well that I can relay the message for them; instead they apologized to me saying ?apologies to ma?am Giselle;? and that they?re sorry if it caused me sleepless nights, that they are willing to treat me out for coffee?which I felt was very insulting?and the best part is that they said they?re sure that The Care wouldn?t mind. I replied to that e?mail and said ?why are you apologizing to me?? They never apologized to Paul or Ian Broudie about the whole event!"
The bottomline was, told Roque sharply is that, "Orange and Lemons are making it sound as if it?s OK to copy melody of a foreign song then use it in their own song that ironically speaks about Filipinos."
Roque said she had a hard time believing that the local act did rip?off "Chandeliers." She stressed, "I?ve long heard [of] rumors long before ?Pinoy Ako? became a hit that the song is parehong-pareho ng ?Chandeliers? but of course I did not want to believe because the people from Orange and Lemons are my friends. In fact it was me that firstly introduced them through Pulp magazine and before they were featured, my editor then had to ask me if I really know them. It was quite a struggle before I finally came out with the feature that started their rise."
Because she had been in constant connection with Simpson, Simpson?s Brit music label Skyray and the label?s representative Nick Halliwell, Roque notified the concerned individuals. "Right now, they are waiting for a move from Warner Chappell?s because they own the rights of the song," Roque revealed.
Asked why she decided to come out with these allegations, she replied, "Paul is my friend but other than that, I have no stake in this thing. Nothing. I just happen to know the truth and I don?t mind sharing it with people who may have been humming a song they believed [to be] original. You just have to listen to both songs to conclude that it?s a violation of intellectual rights."
http://www.mb.com.ph/issues/2005/10/16/ENTR2005101646835.html
lepto and archie: thank you for the comments. fyi, i happen to be an owner and moderator of the ONL egroup, so i know all about this whole issue. and i've spoken with clem and mcoy about it, and as much as i think that the two songs DO sound a lot alike, i'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the band. archie, mcoy posted his own answer to the issue in the egroup a few weeks back. i hope you got to read it. in any case, i hope people see past this and appreciate the band for who and what they are: a genuine filipino talent. (maybe i'm just saying all this because i'm friends with the band, but nobody can deny that those guys really ARE talented).
Hello....I am also a lurker in their egroup. If you saw this, then you confirm that the writer, Kaye Villagomez of Manila Bulletin and the alleged whistleblower was also attacked in your egroup AND YOU did NOTHING TO STOP NOR EVEN MODERATE IT? Much less the kayabangan of Bryan OBVIOUSLY RIDING ON THE POPULARITY OF ONL? Or should I say notoriety? I am still a fan because I LOVE THE FIRST ALBUM but I do not condone plagiarism. Should I now give you the benefit of the doubt knowing fully well that YOU DID NOT DO ANYTHING WHEN THE OTHER FANS WERE HURLING TIRADES AGAINST VILLAGOMEZ AND ROQUE AND VALLE for allegedly misquoting in Inquirer ONL?
hello angelina. thanks for visiting. i will admit that i have been negligent in my duties as owner and moderator of the egroup. mainly it's because of my workload at the office, but i know that's not an excuse. i guess after all the tirades and accusations and mudslinging that happened since this whole issue started, i just got tired of it all. you have no idea how many times people have asked me to explain what really happened and how many times i've been asked what I thought of the whole thing, just because i happen to know the band members. and in the egroup, which as you know is filled with very opinionated individuals, it can get pretty exhausting just to read through all the emails, much more attempt to rein in all their fiery, oftentimes emotional messages with some semblance of authority. besides, i believe in free expression, as i'm sure you yourself do, so i'm not really sure what you expected me to do short of banning all the members who were merely offering their own opinion on the matter.
my co-moderators lui, claude and tonette DID (and still DO) issue reminders once in a while about proper email etiquette and egroup behavior, so i have to give them props for that. i think they're doing a great job.
i guess what i'm trying to say is that people will think what they want to think and believe what they want to believe, and i respect that. i will not waste time nor effort trying to make them think otherwise, especially if they're the type who don't have room for ideas and opinion other than their own. the best i can hope for is that they respect my beliefs, too.
You really don't need to explain because you have said it all "YOU ARE A FRIEND OF ONL", "YOU ARE THE EGROUP MODERATOR" and "YOU ARE NOT DENYING THE THREAD" but instead put your opinion first in defense of them because of the three stated above.
What's left to explain? OF COURSE, YOU CONDONE BECAUSE YOU ARE ON THEIR SIDE!
"i guess what i'm trying to say is that people will think what they want to think and believe what they want to believe, and i respect that. i will not waste time nor effort trying to make them think otherwise, especially if they're the type who don't have room for ideas and opinion other than their own. the best i can hope for is that they respect my beliefs, too."
I respect your beleifs pare but does ONL respect Intellectual Property rights pati yung royalties ng Care o yun man lang pag-acknowledge sa kanila? Ikaw, do you? Ako, si Archie are members of the egroup also.
I have room for ideas and I am not closed minded pare. The point is, inamin nila sa egroup natin tapos dineny nila sa publiko at sabi orihinal nila?
Ano ba talaga kuya? You cannot make them think otherwise kasi IKAW ANG IN DENIAL! Kung si Eric nga eh inamin eh, ikaw pa.
Just stay being the man on the side. You are nothing but ONL's waterboy.
Galit ka lang ata kina Kaye, Josie at Giselle eh kaya ka nagkakaganyan kasi isa ka sa nasaktan sa mga Manila Bulletin Articles at Inquirer.
Nabasa ko yung sagot ni Macoy. Bakit di mo naman iposte dito o gusto mo ako pa ang gumawa nun?
di ba mod Joey?
Lalaki sa lalaki, galit ka sa kanilang 3 ano? kwistyon, kilala mo ba sila ng personal?
Fan ka ba ng Guz Condo?
But you do not deny what Archie posted?
whoa! i didn't think people ever visited this little corner of cyberspace. suddenly i have 8 comments on a single topic. ayos a.
anonymous: er, as much as i would like to reply to your post, i hardly understood a word you said. how about you try that again?
mark: thank you for visiting. but if you have a problem with ONL respecting intellectual property rights, i suggest you go take it up with them in the egroup. did you? i hardly think discussing it here with me will do any of us any good. i mean, of course we would both say that we respect intellectual property rights. the problem is you think ONL violated it, whereas i don't. i'm not in denial about that. you can't convince me otherwise just as i (apparently) can't convince you.
janet: thank you for visiting. ONL's waterboy? hehe. trust me, i've been called worse. =)
archie: hey thanks for visiting. hmm, no, i can't say that i know kaye and josie. giselle i have heard about through the egorup and as a contributor for pulp magazine but no, i also do not know her personally. so i have no reason to be angry at them. and sorry but who or what is guz condo? as for posting mcoy's lengthy reply to the whole issue...see below.
jericho: nope. =)
okay, due to insistent public demand, i am posting herewith mcoy's reply to the whole issue, in all its unedited glory.
==============
From: "lemon_juice2000"
Date: Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:46 am
Subject: hello folks! =)
I personally see the talks bet "Pinoy ako" and "Chandeliers" a
healthy one. Talks between "inspired" and "ripped-off" worthy of
discussion. But like other opinion-based issues (e.g. guilty ba si
erap?, mas magaling ba c vilma kesa kay nora?).. this one would
always be an open-ended discussion. Naturally because the bottomline
is always goin to be based on your own opinion. Yun nga lang, some
people offer their opinion, some immediately pass judgement.
Whatever the case may be, it's all good in my book. Taken
constructively and all in good light.
Ang mahalaga lang talaga sa banda ngayon is to straighten the
facts.. and then move on. Let's do this shall we?
The Resemblance of Pinoy Ako and Chandeliers -
A few days ago, i listened to Chandeliers and tried singing the
lyrics of Pinoy Ako in it. I found it hard na pagsabayin. Both songs
were submitted to authorities in the music scene and were subjected
for analysis and have concluded -- Pinoy Ako and Chandeliers are two
different songs. The same with the stand of the band and the labels
concerned. There are elements na malapit sa isa't isa and the mood
of the song are on the same line.. but the songs were still
considered different from each other.
On a personal note.. I enjoy both songs.
Product of pressure? -
Clem once used this term to describe the circumstances and the time
frame with which ONL was required to finish the song for PBB. But
the mood in the studio when we were recording the song was
completely different. We were working well and enjoying the process
much. I remember all of us agreeing to "ok lads.. lets jam this one
and lets hear wat wud come out naturally from us". The sound that
you hear therefore is a mish-mash of the sounds of artists whom we
have listened to for so long now -- not just Care, but would include
The Beatles (harmonies), The Smiths (guitar fills and licks), APO
and Rey Valera (the baritone and falceto (tama ba sfelling nito?
wahehe) approach on the vocals).
Was there a denial with your knowledge of Care and their songs? -
None whatsoever. We have always been open with regards to our
influences and the musical genre that we "supposedly" belong to --
Indie pop-rock bordering on new wave--. A publication quoted Clem
saying "In fact, we were not even aware that such songs exist.".. It
was Clem referring to songs like "Happy Hour" of the Housemartins
(in comparison to A beginning of something wonderful) and a certain
N'Sync song (hehe) (in comparison to The Nerve).
Arrogance? -
ONL was gravely misquoted.. most especially Clem. I feel for him. He
was never irked or irritated when asked about the issue (in casual
conversations, text messages or formal interviews). He was dealing
with inquiries well.. and so were the three of us in ONL. We have
never bragged about anything.. simply proud of the things we have
accomplished as a band and how we managed to stay the same.
We were quoted saying.."eh bakit kami magpapaalam? Pasalamat pa nga
ang The Care dahil pinasikat namin ang kanta nila"..
..actually what i said was "We wer quite happy to share din with
you, that a number of listers in the ONL egroup dug
out "chandeliers" and the music of CARE after reading about this
issue.. guess what?.. They are now loving the music of Paul Simpson
and the rest of the crew. =) kakatuwa din un. Imagine high school
and college students of today gettin aware and humming the music of
old that we all learned to love? cool.".
Layo noh? =)
There are a couple more quotes or misquotes that was greatly
misinterpreted but please do understand that I don't wanna dwell in
this anymore. Thanks.
Does ONL ever get tired of explaining this issue? -
We don't mind explaining our side. But we'd prefer not to dwell in
it. It's been a month or two since we've discussed this with friends
and some people in the scene. ONL has moved on. The song has served
its purpose for the PBB show. Right now we are more preoccupied with
new projects. Exciting time for us.
It is a fact ladies and gentlemen that there are people who have set
their minds and conclusion regarding the issue. It was never an
intent on our part to justify ourselves and convince them to change
their views otherwise. We just share our side. We respect each and
everyone's take on the matter.
Is there anything to learn from all this?
Of course. Just the same as with anything that happens to anyone. We
are a young band. Great room for improvement. We are simple
musicians. We write songs and play them for people to hear. Either
you like us or hate us or be completely indifferent. What matters to
us greatly is we are able to get the music across.
What is there to expect from ONL?
Please do watch ASAP Mania this Sunday. We'll be launching a
repackaged Strike Whilst The Iron Is Hot album. This one will
include a bonus cd/vcd containing -- the music videos of Hanggang
Kailan and Heaven Knows, Naked versions of Hanggang Kailan and
Heaven Knows, a new song called Abot Kamay, 2 Versions of Blue Moon
and Pinoy Ako (label's decision to include this one ser noel wahehe
=)..)
Strike album is still the collection of our 12(13) tracks.. may
bonus CD lang 'tong repackage. It so happened that ONL was blessed
with a number of projects in the past few months that we all decided
to put it all in one bonus CD. I think it's neat.
Stay tuned for the airplay of ABOT KAMAY this weekend or early next
week in radio stations and the airing of a commercial/music video
that comes along with the song to be aired starting Nov.6..
See you all around. Thanks for reading. =)
mcoy
all in all ang ibig sabihin ay ganito: salamat po sa inyong mga comments, salamat sa care kasi nagamit namin ng walang paalam yung kanta nila at PINAGKAPERAHAN PA NAMIN.
Dito sa pilipinas eh ok lang mang-rip off ng kanta kasi walang mangyayari. ONL rules! Bilhin nyo ang cd namin. ONL kami, kami ang isa sa pinakamaiinit ng banda ngayon kaya walang pwedeng pumalag! Mabuhay at ipagpatuloy ang pagnanakaw at panggagaya sa mga poreyn na kanta kasi walang hustisya dito sa bayan natin.
Salamat joey and macoy dahil sa mga balibaligtad na sinasabi ninyo!
Ika nga, habang sikat eh strike whilst the iron is hot! Wala pa namang demanda eh.
first time i tried to pay attention and fully hear "Pinoy Ako", became curious of the "rip-off" issue and searched for the "Chandeliers". Played and heard both songs many times, and my verdict: Pinoy Ako is "Carish". But in fairness to OnL, after searching the net for their side, they did inject their own style and some "originality" to it. Honestly I really can't accurately say they plagiarized the song, to put it in legal terms maybe. But I'm sure they base Pinoy Ako from the Chandeliers, but I'm not sure by doing it they are infringing the Care's rights. There are some tehnicalities to it, OnL may have threaded on a thin line and are "getting away with it". Two songs sure have unmistakable similarities, and they sound "uncannily" alike as some would put it, but arguments can be laid they are two different songs. only fault i saw with OnL they didn't readily admit Pinoy Ako was inspired by Chandeliers and lied maybe to saying they didn't know Care. i actually liked OnL's Pinoy Ako, and I still can be proud of the group because of their other songs. They sure have the talents we can be proud of, and plus, they will have to prove more to people that they have something original we Filipinos can be proud of.
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